Open Forum

Lets see some of the replies too this .....

  • 1.  Lets see some of the replies too this .....

    Posted 07-31-2018 10:03

    First thanks for the replies to my previous post of "so we cried for a year..."  the scattered responses were "yes the tax credits are absolutely making a difference and to go further with making these tax incentives more permanent". OK, so then what?

     Anyone hear the negotiations going on with Europe, Russia and the US? One of the major components is LNG, Liquid Natural Gas.
    Let me tell you a story about a guy named George. This happened about 20 years ago. George visited me from Romania. His primary concern was to investigate how Geothermal Heat Pumps worked. I am not sure how he found me but all he wanted to know was how to implement ground source heat pumps in Romania. His story was about how in Bucharest, the largest city, had many housing developments in the form of large apartment complexes. He claimed there were all these catacombs underneath Bucharest that were used for absolutely nothing. They had a problem with conditioning these buildings. Cooling was difficult for space reasons and heating was a problem because the Russians would shut the gas off to these buildings as the price fluctuations in the market or some political situations were not beneficial to "Mother Russia". He claimed it was about control. He figured since they had all this access to the catacombs that had a steady temperature would they be good for ground source heat pumps.
    So we went around and around about how to utilize this technology in his circumstance. He primary concern was not about efficiency, environmental, outdoor unit noise and any other feature we use to sell these boxes. By the way, he also never mentioned the First Cost, it was all about FUEL. Since the Russians had lots of natural gas they used that to control the population. They would shut it off when they thought they could sell it somewhere else or there was some political boundary or disagreement with the Romanians. According to George, they would use this as a method of controlling the masses. George saw Geothermal Heat Pumps as a method to protect the Romanians from being manipulated by other countries whims.
    OK, a bit extreme? That can't happen here? Fake News? 

    There was a time when I would ignore natural gas and conceded a portion of the market to them. After all, it is more efficient much less polluting than oil or coal. It is only prevalent in cities and they would never run lines out into the country. So not being a greedy guy and knowing if I could only get to the propane and oil guys that would supply me with plenty of work. I was satisfied by not "bashing" all the fossil fuels and providing a comfortable economic alternative to the fossil fuels.
    Notice what I am talking about, propane oil and natural gas... I haven't mentioned a boiler, a furnace, a chiller, or any other "unit" or method of using these fuels.

    We continue lobbying to be put on a "level playing field" with other renewable sources of energy, being considered on the same plane as solar, wind and other means of renewable energy. Let me ask you who makes solar panels? Who makes windmills? Do you think the consumer knows who makes his solar panels? I am sure in the presentation the panels are discussed as being well manufactured and top in their class. Windmills are a huge addition to the landscape. Do we know who the leading producer of these windmills is?

    It is about fuel!



    ------------------------------
    Pete Prydybasz

    PSP Consulting
    Mohnton PA
    610-775-3182
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Lets see some of the replies too this .....

    Posted 08-01-2018 11:04
    Have to agree with Pete, we as an industry may not be emphasizing the fuel perspective and potential negative leverage others can impose on consumers when explaining the advantages of a GSHP installation.  The most difficult part of this is that when fuel costs are low, ie, natural gas, most of the public - not to mention bureaucrats and even architects, some engineers, developers, etc. - do not consider what the future might bring.  Natural gas is like any other commodity, cost will vary depending on supply, demand and government interference/meddling.  Electricity rates typically do not vary as much, with some exceptions regionally.

    ------------------------------
    [Terry] [Proffer] [Geothermal Manager, CGD]
    [Major Geothermal]
    [Wheat Ridge] [CO]
    [80033]
    TerrilTerril
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Lets see some of the replies too this .....

    Posted 08-02-2018 09:23
    Two important issues surface.
    First is "energy at risk" or is it always available. The supply from Russia shows major challenge in Europe. In the U.S. and Canada the existing natural gas distribution has not been expanded and at peak are near capacity. Some gas utilities are forecasting in the very near future the distribution systems will not deliver the needed demand.
    Second piece of information is the response to the Minnesota report comparing GSHP systems with natural gas/air conditioning systems. Jeff Spitler, Ph.D. responded with his written draft for the IGSHPA BoD to review and adopt. In my opinion, Dr. Spitler hit it out of the ballpark and did a great job using real information that was not skewed (by competing fuel sources). This will be reviewed by the IGSHPA BoD on August 8, 2018 for acceptance and publication as a "white paper".

    ------------------------------
    Garen Ewbank

    Ewbank Geo Testing, LLC
    Fairview OK
    405-826-8156
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Lets see some of the replies too this .....

    Posted 08-02-2018 11:12
    Can't wait to see Dr. Spitlers's narrative!

    ------------------------------
    [Terry] [Proffer] [Geothermal Manager, CGD]
    [Major Geothermal]
    [Wheat Ridge] [CO]
    [80033]
    TerrilTerril
    ------------------------------